Dr. Abosede George: Good morning, nice to be on your show.
EduSounds: Nice meeting you. So can we get to know you a bit more please?
Dr. Abosede George: Sure, my name is Abosede George and I am a historian; the social history and culture history. I teach at Columbia University and Barnard College in New York where I’ve been teaching for the past ten years, my passions are urban history of Africa, women’s history, the history of Lagos and increasingly I’m very interested in the history of migration in Africa.
EduSounds: Wow! That’s interesting. So let’s talk about your Ekopolitanproject? That is how I got to know you…
Dr. Abosede George: Okay.
EduSounds: …because I do this random crazy thing, I go online and search who is doing research on Nigeria. I google stuff like that and then whatever names that pop up, I’ll say okay let me see what they’re doing and if I like what they’re doing, I’ll say let me give it a go and send an email, maybe they will grant an interview and that’s how I got in touch with you.
Dr. Abosede George: That’s great, that’s fantastic. So I guess social media works?
EduSounds: Yes, it does for sure. So, looking at the Ekopolitan project, you are talking about Lagos state right?
Dr. Abosede George: Well, when I started the project, I was very interested in the early decades of the nineteenth century, like the 1820s, 30s up to the 50s. And so, this is precolonial and this is Pre-Lagos in many ways and definitely, it was pre-Lagos as a state that is from 1967 right, so that’s like over a 100 years after the dates that I’m interested in. So, that was my narrow focus. I was very interested in that, and that is still the main period that I’m interested in to be perfectly honest. But the project has expanded in its time frame because of the density of sources.
So, the nature as you go in the nineteenth century, form the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s and on more records exist to work with. Then I am also interested in all histories, like what kind of stories that people tell themselves, what kind of stories survive, what kinds of memory survives. So that sort of push me a little bit because we’re already in the 21st century, so if I’m doing an early nineteenth century project I’m doing something from almost 200 years ago.
It’s not that memory and narratives won’t survive as well from that period but I think I just wanted to expand the scope; the possible number and the possible variety and the possible range of narratives I might be able to encounter. So I kind of pushed it more into the early 20th century.
To the Ekopolitan project, which I think I’ve been vague about. It’s a project about migrant communities in 19th century Lagos and I’m interested in a few different migrations; people who are migrating as refugees from wars, people who are migrating to settle in that kind of a free land if they had been enslaved previously, people who are migrating to rediscover their home if they were in their lifetime had been taken away or coming back in the same life time. So that kind of project I think connects Lagos as an island which was, maybe – the most densely populated place in the region at that time – connects that space to other territories in West Africa, other territories in Yoruba land. Even in Yoruba land you know for the early 19th century, there’s no really such thing as Yoruba, so all of these terms that we use, I think are very historically specific but at least for the period I’m interested in, I think it’s still valid to use Eko, and Eko then like I said was connected to other parts of what would be Yoruba land, other parts of West Africa, other parts of the Atlantic world; some places across the ocean as well and so I was interested in all those migrations to Lagos and that’s what the project is about.
EduSounds: So your definition of Eko now, geographically and spatially, from where to where would it be in present day Lagos?
Dr. Abosede George: Yeah, I would say that my definition of Eko in the project is present day Lagos island, maybe present day like Yaba, Ebute-Metta like going there, present day maybe Iddo; those are the areas that kind of show up the most in early 19th century.
EduSounds: …but then, I was listening to Dr. Ademuluyi (this was supposed to be Dr. Adeluyi), she is into cartographical research on Lagosand she was talking about the earliest map about Lagos, she found during one of her research expedition or something like that, that had to do with the one the colonialists had of the seaways to Lagos around 1840-1850, so If that is the earliest map so far that an academic is claiming to have seen, how do you then define Eko the way you have defined it now?
Dr. Abosede George: What was the geography?
EduSounds: That I am not sure. I mean I didn’t see the map, I just watched her video talking about it.
Dr. Abosede George: Right, I would have to see the map to know the scope because we may be talking about the same geographical territory as she is. So I can assume that she will not define Eko in that period or Lagos in that period differently than I am.
EduSounds: No, she didn’t define it in that video. I am just linking it with this project.
Dr. Abosede George: Yes. There is another historical geographer, whose work I’m very interested in. Her name is Ademide Adelusi-Adeluyi…
EduSounds: …I think that’s the name I wanted to say, Adeluyi.
Dr. Abosede George: First of all, her work is all-fantastic on using existing maps, geographical references that are not in the form of maps. In other to recreate maps of early Lagos and how people thought about not just the physical maps but how people thought about space. So one thing she said, I have read in her work is, she says that a lot of the earlier colonial maps are filled with blank spaces.
EduSounds: Yes, I heard that too.
Dr. Abosede George: Right, so the challenge for her as historian or historical geographer is to… You know as a scholar that those spaces are not blank. Because they are blank on the map does not mean that they are empty spaces. So what it means is that the map maker either does not go there or does not value that space or that the map maker is trying, is not interested in that space; they are interested in creating a map about other things.
So, if you want a comprehensive reflection of space as a scholar, so that’s like the challenge, that’s our puzzle, that’s a methodological challenge and I find her messages are just very creative, very brilliant; you know she uses geographical references in testimonies, in biographies, in songs, all kinds of things to map out the spaces where people lived, who were not necessarily of interest to the colonial mapmakers.
All kinds of references like in Oriki, like different palace narratives; things like that. Because there are other ways in which space is recorded, this is a central space. Either this space is marginal or whatever; this is the front of this space, this is the back of this place. So there are all kinds of references that exist and you know she’s been, I think one of the most innovative historians of the new generation.
New York is like a middle-aged city and Lagos is like a teenager.
EduSounds: Yes, that’s brilliant. So from the Ekopolitan project so far, do you have an idea of any kind of, maybe, professions people were doing back then, maybe as migrants?
Dr. Abosede George: Yeah, I think. You know a lot has been done on professionals, like people were merchants, import-export now, selling things, because the thing about being a migrant is that you are connected to multiple places by definition and so that makes moving things from one place to another much easier. This is before google.com or before Amazon right; if you want something from far away you have to find someone who goes there and comes back with it on returning from the journey which could take months. So, being a merchant was a very common thing for some people; there were still farmers, people doing crafts, hand work, building trades, carpentry, making clothes, things like that. So, just everyday living like people working as sailors, working in the construction industry, working as loan sharks; even lending money.
EduSounds: Yes, she is specialist in Lagos history, especially around the 19th century and she talked about the story of Francis Gomes and she was talking about Francis Gomes, whom I think left Brazil to go back to Nigeria to resettle and he became a very successful business man and she even referenced some court documents and that is where the intrigue is coming from now; so, that means those people were even that literate at that time?
Dr. Abosede George: They could be literate but you know, if you go to court in the 19th century or even in the early 20th century, even if you wanted you could still go to court and you will just get someone translate for you. So, sometimes when you read court documents, also by the way, Kristin Mann is a specialist in the use of legal sources for writing social history. So, a lot of her books use a lot of legal sources and if you look at the documents, they will sometimes list… you go through the accounts of what happened; this one said that and then we asked the translator to make sure that they understood, and then that gives you a clue that even as you’re reading this accounts that ostensibly between party A, party B and the magistrate or whoever is listening and there’s somebody else in the room who was there the whole time, doing the translation.
So, when you say to be literate – you have to be literate in terms of reading and writing – which is one assumption that we are making, not necessarily. And secondly, you have to be literate in the language of the court which is not necessarily the case, people know their own language, they do not necessarily know if this is Gesi or this is English language right. But the court still helps, then you always have to think about how is this meeting even possible? How is this conversation, this document even able to be created? There is always these people in the court, the clerks, the translator, the letter writers, they are the invisible hand in the record; but she (Kristin Mann) does amazing things with these legal records. I think it’s really innovative, because people I think, previously had used legal records to think about legal questions or questions of law and etc but when you start… she was able to start using… She opened up the possibility of using legal records to ask different kinds of questions about society, about social life, about social difference, about culture and economic questions. You don’t have to use court records just to think about law, you can use them for other things too.
EduSounds: Yes, I mean another interesting thing is that when she was doing her presentation, she talked about the cost of a house, which was mentioned in a murder case – about 320 or 370 pounds and that was in the 19th century Lagos, we are talking about around 1870 something.
Dr. Abosede George: Yeah, It’s amazing. It’s how you learn about the economy of that period; that was a lot of money. How are people able to earn that much money if they ostensibly had been enslaved at one point? They had come back, they had to rebuild their life and start over and they were going to court to fight over property, like serious property. Like houses and land and things like that, so you begin to uncover so many things you might not have expected about that period.
EduSounds: So, let’s talk about the Lagos from the pepper farm to the mega city conference, why that theme of pepper farm and mega city?
Dr. Abosede George: Well, the title of that conference is based on a course that I have taught at Barnard College. Since I arrived, I started taking a Lagos history seminar because I think Lagos is a big city, bigger than some countries and it has so many dimensions to its history and I thought that a lot of people teach courses on African cities in general and will try to combine Cape Town, Johannesburg, Nairobi everything into one course but I’m like – really, even in one course you couldn’t do one of these cities alone. You can take a course on Lagos, so I’ve been teaching this course on Lagos and I organized the conference. So, pepper farm to the mega city, it’s just to say that the entire strand of Lagos history is valid. If you want to inquire about 60s, or the 90s or the 1860s all of these are welcome as topics for the conference and not topic for the course. So, that’s basically where that name came from. So, that’s the origin of the name, pepper farm to mega city.
EduSounds: Yes because when I saw it I was thinking of sugarcane plantation? Pepper farm? Is there any similarity there?
Dr. Abosede George: You know there is a whole story about when the Benin explorers were first coming to Lagos, that the places around the palace, one of the palaces now, used to be like a farmland, and they used to have pepper crops growing there, things like that. So, that’s where the name pepper farm came from. Because I was like, okay, so in the earliest references, the cultivation or settlement really have to do with pepper, so I was like okay call it – pepper farm. So, it started as a small pepper farm or maybe a small fishing village; there are different stories about when the origin really is and now claiming mega city status, so this is the entire span of the life of Lagos.
EduSounds: You just said it’s ‘claiming’ but you were in Lagos some months ago, I guess and you should have seen something. What’s you impression as a historian that has focused on Lagos?
Dr. Abosede George: I think it’s a huge. It’s a huge city sprawling you know. Sometimes you are not really sure where the boundaries are. I remember I was coming back from Abeokuta and I know where to like cross a bridge somewhere, we had to cross something, it wasn’t a bridge, we had to cross something, I don’t remember what neighborhood but I just wasn’t clear. I was like are we in Lagos now? Or was it back there? So, the boundaries are very unclear, it’s just growing spatially out of control; population-wise – it’s obviously a very crowded city. And then I think that Lagos state government starting with the last admiration under Fashola and now this new one, I think they’re trying to make the mega in mega city be not just about size but hopefully about quality, you know quality of life. So it doesn’t have to be just a big place but maybe also a nice place, that’s the hope.
EduSounds: Yeah, that’s the hope. But then, there is this aspect of gentrification, you are free not to answer that. But I have some views about gentrifying cities without thinking about the impacts. You need an inclusive city, that’s what I know about Lagos, that’s the story I grew up to know about Lagos but it seems things are changing a bit in that direction?
Dr. Abosede George: I think so, I think that there are many different issues in Lagos. When you think about gentrification, it is always a question of power, like who has the power to shape a city; like how it is, how it works, how it looks? And within the power class I would say, people who have the power to reshape the city. I’m not sure that there is consensus on what Lagos should be like, so there might be an important faction that is for gentrification and has a very vision of what urban life is like but there are other factions within that group who maybe, completely disagree and they are like – well, I don’t know we’ve being here for a long time and we kind of like things this way and we don’t want this or we don’t want that. So, I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that what Lagos is going to be like in the future. I do not think it’s a foregone conclusion at all, because all these different factions are very strong in their opinions. You know there’s only so much that Lagos can sustain and I think there’s only so much that you can create from the top down. The city is also created by the way people use it, by the way people live in it and that’s always going to be a factor.
EduSounds: You live in New York City, so there’s always this issue of New York is the capital city of the world. Around last year, Teju Cole, I guess you know him?
Dr. Abosede George: Yes
EduSounds: …He was saying no, Lagos is the capital city of Africa. Was it last year or this year, I heard him saying something like “Lagos is the capital city of Africa”. So, are there similarities between New York and Lagos from an historical perspective? If you look at the settings, the environments…
Dr. Abosede George: I think that from historical perspective they both have gone through phases where the cities grow faster than the governments could manage. So it’s like this game of urban planning, playing catch up with the population because always the planning comes after. So, I think they have that experience, regrettably. New York I think is very settled; people talk about some cities being emerging and very dynamic, like in a phase where there are lots of changes in transformation, and some cities being so settled that you don’t really see much movement anywhere really, so, you don’t get as much energy. I will say that coming from Lagos, New York does seem very settled. I will say New York is like a middle-aged city and Lagos is like a teenager.
EduSounds: Wow, I like that metaphor, laughs.
Dr. Abosede George: So there are some advantages to middle age, yes it’s nice, calm but you know there are also some advantages to youth – it’s exciting, anything can happen. You know, go this way or that way, and everybody is very awake, very alert, very interested in everything that is going on.
EduSounds: Let’s go back a bit to your Ekopolitan project. Part of your focus is on the settlers and those that decided to settle in Lagos, especially on the island. The Cuban community and the Brazilian community in particular. You interviewed an ex-Cuban diplomat who happens to be a historian; I think he is Rodolfo Sarracino
Dr. Abosede George: Sarracino, Yes.
EduSounds: Rodolfo Sarracino, Yes. And I listened to your interview and I found a lot of interesting things he what he said. But one of the things that I want to find out was that, there’s not much of the language influence from those communities on Lagos Island and I grew up on Lagos Island and I have an idea of it. So, you don’t really feel the language, it’s not like you’re hearing Spanish or Portuguese spoken on Lagos Island, so why is that possible? I mean those people are mainly the elites even up to today on the island. They form powerful elites, you know.
Dr. Abosede George: Well, I think that’s not because they were migrants because being a migrant arriving anywhere, you are always at a kind of disadvantage because you don’t know where you are, you don’t know the layout, especially in the first generation. Maybe the second-generation usually fair better. There are many people, who are well off now, but it’s not everybody. Now with Rodolfo Sarracino , It was a privilege to meet him. I had read his book “Los Que Volvieron A Africa (those who go back to Africa or those who went back)”.
EduSounds: Sorry is that book in Spanish?
Dr. Abosede George: Yes
EduSounds: I was wondering, do you speak Spanish? Because when I heard you calling the title, I was like – is it a book written in Spanish?
Dr. Abosede George: Well, I studied it and I can read slowly with a dictionary but that’s what historians have to do. So, I read the book, most of it anyway. Then I went to Cuba to meet him and he told me all about how he was assigned to history students very passionate about it. Cuba has a very… Post-revolutionary Cuba has a very kind of more positive relationship to its African history. Even though, of course, there is a big European influence in Cuban culture and some people are very Europhile.
EduSounds: Really?
Dr. Abosede George: Oh yes, I mean at the end of the day these are still colonies. These are still post colonies, there is no post colony that has fully escaped the imprint of its European domination. It’s still always kind of somewhere in the culture and the psyche. Cuba is not different but compared to maybe other Spanish colonies, after the revolution, they kind of try to have a different view of blackness in Africa.
Yes, I met him. He had been assigned as a diplomat to Nigeria, so he was in Nigeria because Lagos was the capital at the time. And he said that he just randomly noticed that these things like the Cuban lodge and somebody told him some people have Cuban ancestry and he had heard about this when he was a history student in Cuba – that there were some people who had gone back to Africa. So, it’s not like it was a one way exile but that there were some rotations but there wasn’t a lot of research that was done on it back then ,when he was studying. So he had heard of it, I think he had done some research with maybe a Brazilian scholar who also knew a little bit about this, but I don’t have a lot to go on. So when he was in Lagos it was like a wild opportunity for him, and then he saw here and there all these traces of Latin America, all these traces of the Caribbean.
Now you say that one of the places where we can look for traces in language and you don’t see the language but even a word we use like ‘Palava’ which for means a problem or a big debate. It comes from the Spanish word‘Palava’ which is for wars.I think if we look carefully at our language, the language we speak is not a pure Yoruba, it’s not. There are so many little creoles in it that are mixing from other languages and I think if we look with an eye to that, then we will begin to see exactly how it did affect our language.
EduSounds: So, you talked about Campus on Lagos Island; getting to know about the Cuban community, I think Brazilian community?
Dr. Abosede George: Yes, he did such a fantastic research. He did a lot of oral histories of people in Lagos who had migrant history from Cuba. We knew some that some of their ancestors had come from Cuba. And then, after his assignment was over and he was back in Cuba he did some research in a region of Cuba, it starts with an ‘N’, there you find all kinds of people who had letters like records, documents from their relations in West Africa. Their relations in places like Lagos for the 19th century. So he kind of was able to, through migrating himself, he was able to follow the histories of these migrants. He was able to see some records in Lagos; some records back in Cuba and like connect the two. And he had published some of them in his book actually at the end, so, it’s fantastic; it’s a very difficult work to follow migrants historically because you have to literally follow them to wherever they might have left records.
EduSounds: So, he talked about Nigeria being one of the countries that had a huge influence on Cuba. I was quite surprised when he said that. He even said culturally or something like that in that interview.
Dr. Abosede George: Yes, I think a lot of people from the modern country of Nigeria ended up in the Caribbean. They were enslaved in a sense of community and in the Caribbean unlike let’s say North America, like the US, in the Caribbean people could still like, they could speak their languages, sometimes they could buy their way out of slavery, they could become free people, they could fund their own communities.
They had their own ‘Égbe’ like secret societies, they do their own religion. So all those little things are little aspects of your identity and because they could hold-on to them a bit more in the Caribbean due to the different kinds of laws governing slavery etc. Those aspects of their identity are handed down; they just become a part of the Cuban culture. So I think that’s what he means. You always see some certain parts of a culture in those places where people were able to retain aspects of their culture like – the language or the religion or you know the music or the food, things like that.
Those places you’re more likely to see over time that it becomes part of the new culture. It just becomes integrated into the new culture. And people also are able to recognize that it is of African derivation. Some other places you might see something as African derivation but it’s been so it erased, the connection, that it takes somebody years of scholarship to be able to draw the ties but the Caribbean, I think, it’s a little bit easier because they’re able to express themselves as Africans the more clearly.
EduSounds: So, I know you are the president of the Nigerian Studies Association.
Dr. Abosede George: Yes, I am the new president of the Nigerian Studies Association, which is a professional association of scholars who study Nigeria in some capacity and we are a sub-group within the African Studies Association of the US. So, I’m very happy to be a member of that group, because we are interested in Nigeria as a nation and on its unfolding history and also its older history too.
EduSounds: Let me start with your logo, you’ve got like a sculpture of 4 people or something like that, backing each other to represent your logo. And as a Nigerian, I was asking myself, does this represent the diversity in the Nigerian culture or is it a particular culture that it represents?
Dr. Abosede George: I think to understand how the Nigerian Studies Association works, you have to realize that within the African Studies Association before there was a Nigerian Studies Association; there were other professional associations that were focused on particular ethnic groups in Nigeria. So, there was a Yoruba studies, Ibo studies…, things like that. And so, the Nigerian Studies Association was founded after those things have been set up, so those fields were already very well developed and also narrowly focused on sub-nations within Nigeria or sub-nationalities.
And so the founding of an association that bills itself as Nigerian Studies Association means that there are a group of people who are interested in the reality of this new nation state and taking it seriously as a place that has a history that can be a real object of study going forward and I think that Nigerian studies strives to… we do acknowledge, there are all kinds of different sub-nations within Nigeria that are very coherent and very interesting to study any of them. And they all fit within Nigerian studies, Nigerian studies can also be distinct from the study of sub-nations. So, I think maybe that’s what we’re trying to communicate with our logo; I don’t know! Something like that.
EduSounds: I look at the composition of your working team. I know you’ve got some, probably, maybe some non-Nigerians as part of your team and then you’ve got some Nigerians, Nigerian-Americans; you have some Nigerian academics in the US, some Nigerian academics in Nigeria but mainly in Lagos and mainly in the US and I was thinking do you get to reach out to other Nigerian (and non-Nigerian) academics that are studying Nigerian studies in diaspora? Because I didn’t see that representation there.
Dr. Abosede George: The association is always growing and always changing and the membership of the association is open to anyone who studies Nigeria. So many Nigerians study Nigeria. Nigerians also study other countries, so the association would not be relevant to their work. If you study Mozambique or something, why would you go to Nigerian Studies Association meetings? So anyone who studies Nigeria professionally and is interested in the growth of this field of study is welcome to our association. I think so far probably there is over representation of people who study in North America because the association was founded here as a subsidiary of the African Studies Association of the US. If it had been founded probably as a subsidiary of ASA UK, probably a lot of the members would have been people who study Nigeria in the UK but we also try to reach out.
We do make efforts to reach out to, especially, scholars based in Nigeria because they do come to the ASA meeting in the US; those who know about it anyway and their contributions are always fantastic. And we’re also trying to start having more meetings in Nigeria itself or at least support more meetings in Nigeria. So, the way it’s moving right now, it like it starts with a very US based Nigerian studies community but it’s trying to branch to like a Nigeria based Nigerian studies community too. So those two countries will probably be over represented for a while, but you know in theory it’s an international association.
EduSounds: The other thing I noticed is, part of what you said you will be doing is – you will be publishing journal articles, two volumes a year. I actually went through your website, I noticed you have one volume published online that I saw in 2010 and the second one in 2012; since 2012 you have not published any journal and this is 2017, that’s five years of knowledge not put out there.
Dr. Abosede George: It’s a huge gap. I think probably we should not make such ambitious claim about how frequently we publish. I’m a new president but I think, you know, there are a lot of things that go into publishing a journal and you know a lot of those issues are still being worked through. We do have another issue of the journal in progress right now. So, it’s definitely not every two years, it has been as you said one year, then three years and five years but that I think is something that we want to kind of get in shape and have more consistency, that would be great.
EduSounds: Finally, on Nigerian studies before we go. You don’t seem to have a representative on media interactions. You have your book review editor…
Dr. Abosede George: I think you are right, we don’t. We have a new officer who is focused on our social media and trying to do outreach through social media but we have not really gotten that up and going. What you’re talking about is like media generally right? I think that like most professional associations of academics, we do what we know right, we know about journal, we know about articles, we know about conference papers. I would not say we’re like the most-savvy in terms of social media or things like that. I feel like a lot of academics… we do those things because you have to nowadays, not like we know what we are doing really, you are not going to see those aspects of an organization well developed.
I think it’s a voluntary organization we have a few officers like 4 or 5. They are all academics; nobody is like a professional in any of these things. Honestly, I think we should stick to what we have but I gathered that you are suggesting that that would be a good idea to have someone focus on media.
EduSounds: Sure, especially, even the social media because you get to reach out to a lot of people doing that.
Dr. Abosede George: Yes, I think it could be a lot more dynamic in that direction. But right now we are mostly focused on the journal and trying to get it to be regular because that’s what academics do; we should be creating scholarship and publishing scholarship.
EduSounds: …But academics will need to interact with the general audience. That’s the end goal isn’t it? That’s the ultimate goal.
Dr. Abosede George: Sure, once you have the scholarship that you are bringing to the table.
EduSounds: So, did you have any primary education in Nigeria at all?
Dr. Abosede George: I had primary school in Nigeria, some part of it but that was about it actually. When I was about to go to secondary school that’s when we travelled to the US.
EduSounds: Alright
Dr. Abosede George: I remember I had gone to visit some different schools with my mom and went to visit one kind of like Army College and went to visit Queens College and I think there was one other school. So all in the process of that and then before you knew it, I found myself on a plane and in a new country and had to learn a new life. I did do some primary school at a school that was Ade Akodu Primary School somewhere in Bode Thomas I think.
EduSounds: Surulere axis.
Dr. Abosede George: That was about it, I still have some friends from that time actually. You know we are much older now than we were then.
EduSounds: So, how can people get to see Ekopolitan project online and Nigerian Studies Association, your websites and social media links?
Dr. Abosede George: Ekopolitan project is, you can get it at www.ekopolitanproject.org, we are also on Facebook and I very strongly recommend people to join us on Facebook. Because the blog is going to be going through some changes that are coming up but will continue to be active on Facebook as we re-imagine what to do with the blog.
The initial idea was to use it as a crowd-sourcing blog because I knew that there were people from Lagos with migrants histories, family histories that were also migrants themselves and they were not all in Lagos and they were spread all over the world and so the blog… you know the Internet becomes a place where the world meets and so the idea was to crowd source this population with the blog. I’m working through what to do with the blog, we want to change some things; we are on social media, we’re on Facebook and it’s called Ekopolitan Project. You can find it on Facebook and keep up with what we’re doing.
Nigerian Studies Association, just Google www.nigeranstudiessssociation.org and you can find us there and learn about this association, where we’re meeting, how you can join and who is in it and what they’re working on.
EduSounds: Thanks a lot Dr. Abosede George, it has been brilliant talking to you, it’s been very engaging. Thanks a lot.
Dr. Abosede George: Its being fantastic talking to you and learning about your work too.
